I flew the San Jose (KSJC) ILS 30L approach on Sunday, and
noticed that there is no charted FAF, i.e. no Maltese Cross. I
use Jepp plates but I just looked at the NOS plate on the AOPA
site and it's the same. There's also no OM - although there is
an MM.

Seems strange - anyone have any idea why? I thought that all
approaches had to have an FAF?

John

"John Harper" > wrote in news:1072129171.853216@sj-
nntpcache-3:

> I flew the San Jose (KSJC) ILS 30L approach on Sunday, and
> noticed that there is no charted FAF, i.e. no Maltese Cross. I
> use Jepp plates but I just looked at the NOS plate on the AOPA
> site and it's the same. There's also no OM - although there is
> an MM.
>
> Seems strange - anyone have any idea why? I thought that all
> approaches had to have an FAF?

An ILS has a Final Approach Point, not a FAF. This is the point at which
you intercept the glideslope at the procedure turn altitude. LOMs are
being decommissioned, and outer markers seem to be receiving little
maintenance, since they aren't required. You will see an altitude on the
chart, showing the altitude at which you should intercept the glideslope,
and this is the FAP. Its only practical use is to make sure you're on the
true glideslope.

--
Regards,

Stan

"John Harper" > wrote in message
news:1072129171.853216@sj-nntpcache-3...
> I flew the San Jose (KSJC) ILS 30L approach on Sunday, and
> noticed that there is no charted FAF, i.e. no Maltese Cross. I
> use Jepp plates but I just looked at the NOS plate on the AOPA
> site and it's the same. There's also no OM - although there is
> an MM.
>
> Seems strange - anyone have any idea why? I thought that all
> approaches had to have an FAF?

A precision approach FAF is designated by a lightning bolt, not by a Maltese
Cross. (See the AIM Pilot/Controller Glossary).

--Gary

>
> John
>
>

"Stan Gosnell" > wrote in message
...
> An ILS has a Final Approach Point, not a FAF. This is the point at which
> you intercept the glideslope at the procedure turn altitude. LOMs are
> being decommissioned, and outer markers seem to be receiving little
> maintenance, since they aren't required. You will see an altitude on the
> chart, showing the altitude at which you should intercept the glideslope,
> and this is the FAP. Its only practical use is to make sure you're on the
> true glideslope.

According to the AIM's Pilot/Controller Glossary, precision approaches also
have FAFs, but with a lightning-bolt designation rather than a Maltese
Cross.

--Gary



>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Stan
>

"John Harper" > wrote in message
news:1072129171.853216@sj-nntpcache-3...
>
> I flew the San Jose (KSJC) ILS 30L approach on Sunday, and
> noticed that there is no charted FAF, i.e. no Maltese Cross. I
> use Jepp plates but I just looked at the NOS plate on the AOPA
> site and it's the same. There's also no OM - although there is
> an MM.
>
> Seems strange - anyone have any idea why? I thought that all
> approaches had to have an FAF?
>

The Maltese cross identifies the final approach fix only on non-precision
approaches. It's commonly seen on ILS approach plates because most of them
also have localizer minimums, but this one does not.

"John Harper" > wrote in message
news:1072129171.853216@sj-nntpcache-3...
> I flew the San Jose (KSJC) ILS 30L approach on Sunday, and
> noticed that there is no charted FAF, i.e. no Maltese Cross. I
> use Jepp plates but I just looked at the NOS plate on the AOPA
> site and it's the same. There's also no OM - although there is
> an MM.
>
> Seems strange - anyone have any idea why? I thought that all
> approaches had to have an FAF?
>
> John
>
>

The cross denotes the FAF for a non-precision approach. You will often see
them on ILS profiles only because many ILS approach plates depict localizer
approaches as well. But the SJC ILS 30L plate does not -- see the note
about flying the LOC DME.

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "John Harper" > wrote in message
> news:1072129171.853216@sj-nntpcache-3...
> >
> > I flew the San Jose (KSJC) ILS 30L approach on Sunday, and
> > noticed that there is no charted FAF, i.e. no Maltese Cross. I
> > use Jepp plates but I just looked at the NOS plate on the AOPA
> > site and it's the same. There's also no OM - although there is
> > an MM.
> >
> > Seems strange - anyone have any idea why? I thought that all
> > approaches had to have an FAF?
> >
>
> The Maltese cross identifies the final approach fix only on non-precision
> approaches. It's commonly seen on ILS approach plates because most of
them
> also have localizer minimums, but this one does not.
>
>

Well said :)

Stan Gosnell wrote:
> John Harper wrote:
>
> > I flew the San Jose (KSJC) ILS 30L approach on Sunday, and
> > noticed that there is no charted FAF, i.e. no Maltese Cross. I
> > use Jepp plates but I just looked at the NOS plate on the AOPA
> > site and it's the same. There's also no OM - although there is
> > an MM.
> >
> > Seems strange - anyone have any idea why? I thought that all
> > approaches had to have an FAF?

Stan,

You are not quite correct.

> An ILS has a Final Approach Point, not a FAF.

Every ILS (in the US) has a FAF at the point where you intersect the
glideslope per the chart or per ATC altitudes. A FAP occurs on
non-precision approach when, for example, the VOR is situated on-field and
no specific point can be identified on the approach using DME etc.


> This is the point at which
> you intercept the glideslope at the procedure turn altitude.

Procedure turn has nothing to do with it. You could do a procedure turn,
step down a few times, then intersect the glideslope at the FAF.


> LOMs are
> being decommissioned, and outer markers seem to be receiving little
> maintenance, since they aren't required. You will see an altitude on the
> chart, showing the altitude at which you should intercept the glideslope,
> and this is the FAP. Its only practical use is to make sure you're on the
> true glideslope.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to imply that the LOM occurs at the
glideslope intersect point (FAF). Usually, LOMs occurs after starting the
descent on the GS.

Hilton